The Dark Knight Rises

I saw it on Friday night and enjoyed it immensely. Only real downside was that there was probably two movies worth of story in Rises and I would happily have sat through another two hours if they'd chosen a five hour running time. Lots of characters and events that will take a few viewings for it all to sink in. Anyone else seen it yet?
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  • I thought about starting this thread, but I'm glad you beat me too it.

    And seriously, if you're here, you've no reason to complain about spoilers. Go away until you've seen the movie, or don't.

    Just saw it this morning. Its a giant wallow, but that's fine, I was ready for a giant wallow. The Lord of the Rings is another giant wallow, and for that matter, one of my all time favorite movies, Lawrence of Arabia is a giant wallow.

    Ann Hathaway was just fine as Selina Kyle (I hesitate to say Catwoman in this case.) I was pleasantly surprised that what we all took for some dopey looking cat ears were her goggles flipped up. A nice design touch.


  • and if my spoiler comment sounded snarky, my apologies. But its hard to imagine that anyone on this forum is waiting to see how the reviews are before deciding to go see it and if you don't like spoilers, then get to the movie and come back. Personally, I don't care much about spoilers, and if you don't then hang out.
  • Predictable but fun. 

    A lot fewer plot holes than PROMETHEUS.
  • I loved it. I was impressed by how well the overall plot held together, and I was actually taken completely off guard by one of the twists.

    S

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    I got that Miranda was Talia from the get go (her balance statement right in the beginning made that obvious) but that she was the child in the prison - nope. And in retrospect, the clues are there. So well played, Nolan.
  • Plus the Talia thing had been rumored on the internet for the last year.

    I did kind of like the last scene.
  • and BTW the Man of Steel trailer was pretty cool and unexpected.
  • Liked the last scene, but I think it would have been stronger without the final reverse shot. 
  • Am I a crazy person if I say I loathed this movie?  It was just riddled with holes, lacked a theme, and did little justice to the previous stories told.  

    "The Dark Knight" is one of my two favorite films in the past decade, so I was rather devastated to react so negatively to the picture... but I honestly think this is Christopher Nolan's weakest narrative by a long shot.


  • edited July 2012

    I think Miranda's comments made it fairly obvious she was indeed Talia but they did have me believing it was a benevolent Talia who was going to side with Bruce, so I wasn't expecting stabbity at the end. It also provided a decent counter arc to Selina's, who went in the opposite direction. I liked Anne Hathaway's Selina Kyle a lot, she was ambiguous until the end and had the right amount of attitude to never be quite certain of where she stood. 

    My only real grumbles are that the story seemed like a messy merger of the Knightfall and No Man's Land stories from the comics but it really needed some device to pace the third quarter, which was supposed to take place over six months or so (?). Also, the John Blake character was too knowing and characters accepted him too easily. We know why he was there but he seemed shoehorned into the script to be Robin without the stigma of admitting the character was actually a sidekick.     

  • @NolanTJ I totally agree with you on this one. While I didn't hate it, it seemed Nolan took the path of "sentimental ending" that I feel Warner brothers mandated him to do. I liked the two previous films much more than this one. it felt too long and for some reason  Bale didn't really seem like Batman to me. In costume, yes. Out of costume seemed like a different character (not  Bruce Wayne).
  • edited July 2012
    I saw a pre-screening Thursday night. I enjoyed the movie, but perhaps my being a comic nerd ruined some of the twists in the flick.

    Below is the spoiler-free review that posted today on my website, and Friday on my FB:



    Movie Review: The Dark Knight Rises (2012)

    Director: Christopher Nolan

    Cast: Tom Hardy, Christian Bale, Anne Hathaway, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Gary Oldman, Marion Cotillard, Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine

    Plot: It’s several years after the end of the previous
    Batman movie, and Batman (Bale) hasn’t made any public appearances after
    the death of Harvey Dent. Neither has Bruce Wayne, for that matter.
    He’s holed up in Wayne manner, with his faithful servant Alfred (Caine)
    looking after him…and trying to get him to settle down with a lady.

    Promoted to Commissioner, Gordon (Oldman) has successfully cleaned up
    the streets and all but eliminated organized crime in Gotham.

    However, not all’s well in the world. A nuclear scientist is being
    transported back to the United States and during this exchange, is
    broken out against his will by mercenary Bane (Hardy). Bane bee-lines it
    for Gotham City, where he has dastardly plans for the good scientist.
    Turns out Bane’s running the League of Shadows – the same group from
    Batman Begins that trained Bruce, and was also trying to destroy Gotham.

    Meanwhile, during a fundraiser held at Wayne Manner, cat burglar
    Selina Kyle (Hathaway) sneaks into Bruce’s secluded wing and tries to
    steal his mother’s pearl necklace…as well as his finger prints!

    As Bane and crew start laying the foundation of their diabolical
    scheme, police officer Blake (Gordon-Levitt) is investigating why orphan
    kids are dying in the sewers of the city.

    Bane’s master stroke is finally revealed, forcing Bruce Wayne to done
    the mantle of the Batman yet again. However, with a more fragile body
    and having been out of the game for a while, does Batman have a chance
    to defeat the elite mercenary and his army of the League of Shadows?

    I saw an advanced pre-screening of Batman 3 on Thursday night, and
    really found myself enjoying it. It’s certainly the movie that resembles
    a comic book the most in the Nolan universe – which isn’t a bad thing
    by any measure. The budget was bigger, so the stunts and action set
    pieces were as well. Nothing really stood out as spectacular – but
    that’s mostly because the entire flick has been beefed up to be
    incredible.

    For those of you who don’t know, the previous Nolan Batman flicks
    were shot in Chicago – but not this movie. And it shows. The city looks
    completely different. And it’s not necessarily a bad thing, but a
    nit-picky thing several people in my group also noticed. However, we are
    all from Chicago….

    The acting in this flick is top-notch. The entire cast does a great
    job of playing within this comic book world. The stand out performance
    was, for me, delivered by Caine’s Alfred. He under-goes the most
    emotional journey of the entire trilogy, and you feel his pain
    throughout. Gordon-Levitt does a good job as well, eating up the scenes
    he’s in. He does a good job playing this up-and-coming officer with that
    go-get-’em attitude that any good cop would need in Gotham City. And
    Hathaway does a serviceable performance as Selina, which is a trick role
    to play in a more realistic Batman universe like we’ve seen in Nolan’s
    flicks.

    Bale does a great job as Bruce, playing the tortured soul who just
    can’t let go of the tragedy of his parents death. Although, his Batman
    still needs some work. I’m told it’s difficult to work in that suit, but
    he still sounds like he is short of breath and needs a cough drop.

    Despite numerous revisions to his voice as well, Bane is still
    incredibly difficult to hear and understand through most of the movie. I
    almost wish they had included some subtitles for him…or had a sound
    mixer with worse hearing….

    Fans of the movies will be glad to know that the previous flicks do
    get call outs, and do affect the characters and the story. While Joker
    isn’t mentioned (due to respect to Heath Ledger’s passing, according to
    interviews with Nolan), the events of that movie are mentions. Here’s
    what you need to remember for this flick:

    Batman Begins:

    1) Bruce Wayne is a rich orphan, who was comforted by Gordon when he parents were killed

    2) Bruce traveled the world for 7+ years, eventually joining the League
    of Shadows before finding out they were evil, and destroying them –
    killing their leader, Ra’s Al Ghul

    3) Batman forms an alliance with Gordon to take down organized crime

    The Dark Knight:

    1) Harvey Dent is the district attorney who made a difference, teamed up with Batman and Gordon to fight organized crime

    2) Harvey Dent was turned into Two-Face, and died at the end of the flick

    3) Batman took the blame for Two-Face’s murders (and Dent’s murder) to keep Dent’s reputation clean

    I didn’t want to put any plot spoilers into the review, but suffice
    it to say I saw some of the twists and turns in this flick coming from a
    mile away. However, I was probably the only person in the theater
    that’s actually read a Batman comic book, or watched the Batman The
    Animated Series.

    But despite my uncanny ability to predict a lot of movies, I really
    enjoyed this flick. It’s not as fun of a movie-going experience as The
    Avengers was (few flicks are, and I knew this one would keep with the
    dark, brooding tone of the previous movies), but it’s still well worth
    your hard-earned dollars to see it in theaters.

    The run time is long, coming in around 2 hours and 48 minutes. My
    recommendation: don’t drink a lot BEFORE the movie, or too early. The
    last thing you want to do is have to pee the entire movie…or have to
    leave during the grand finale.

    The movie will hold your attention, keep you hooked from beginning to
    end, and really let you connect with the characters we have come to
    love in these roles (for the last time) in the Nolan Batman universe.

    Go see this movie.

  • Am I a crazy person if I say I loathed this movie?  It was just riddled with holes, lacked a theme, and did little justice to the previous stories told.  

    "The Dark Knight" is one of my two favorite films in the past decade, so I was rather devastated to react so negatively to the picture... but I honestly think this is Christopher Nolan's weakest narrative by a long shot.


    What were the holes? I'm curious, because it all held together pretty well for me.

    It did a have a theme: The past doesn't have to define you. It's there for pretty much all the main characters, and the movie is about whether you can let go of the past before it destroys and start over. Heck, it's even there for the entire Gotham PD in the end. It doesn't really have a political theme, despite making nudges towards it.
  • edited July 2012
    What were the holes? I'm curious, because it all held together pretty well for me. 
    A bit of copypasta from the discussions I've been having on this with others...

    The start point is mind-boggling.  In this universe Batman exists for one year (per Joker's "wind back the clock a year").  As for why a preteen would know about him... I can't imagine.  As for why we're holding eight year anniversaries for Dent's death... beyond me.  But more than anything, how the Bruce Wayne from the last forty minutes of TDK becomes the shell of a man we see on display in TDKR, complete with crumbling Wayne Enterprises... zero sense made.  I feel like Nolan makes an effort to invalidate everything in the TDK ending ("we have to chase him")... felt almost Alien3 in whiplash, and tonally more lost than Spider-man 3 or X-Men: The Last Stand (which both left me gritting my teeth, but at least more entertained).
     
    Every speculation comes true without a twist or surprise.  Talia being in the film.  Bane back-breaking.  JGL being Robin/Nightwing/Batman 2.0.  All done without any flair or suspense.  There no deaths and as such no stakes in the film.  When Batman "dies" (replacing the lie of noble Dent's death with the lie of Batman's death), we can't believe it for a moment.  Then we run that fan fiction gauntlet of an ending... none of which has been earned by the story presented.  Something about that Alfred cafe setup is particularly disgusting, as the moment he relays that dream is possibly the most frustrating in the film, as it's so obviously going to be the film's end and it's coupled with the maddening set of "what if I told you" nonsense that somehow drives him and Bruce apart (so Bruce can sleep with Talia who asks him to run away with her and what would have happened if he said "yes" and have we ever seen Bruce sleep with anyone like this and why her as isn't he already crushing on his destined mate in Selina and why now unless it is a reaction to his economic ruin which in no way impacts his ability to go globe trotting what the in the hell is happening).

    I've seen some people talk about Bruce having an arc leading to salvation.  He did some push-up's and then figured out that maybe he shouldn't jump with a short rope tied around his waist. His tech was used for terror and terror only. No fusion reactor exists at the end of that film. Gotham doesn't benefit from his legacy. There is no salvation. Bruce is stabbed by a lady whose DAD he killed. Bruce DAD-KILLER Wayne, then proceeds to KILL HER and then disappear.

    Compounding it all: humanity is left completely unexamined. The people of Gotham play zero role in the conclusion of the piece, making the events particularly hollow.  There is no ferry moment where they prove their worth... as a matter of fact, the plot specifically AVOIDS allowing them to have an impact, because Bane's social experiment has an expiration date.  

    So, yeah, I was not a happy camper.  Hathaway and JGL were nice.  There are some pretty shots.  I really like the idea of police as protesters (even if they are police that were inexplicably sent to the same place to be trapped and then come out five months later looking very well kept).  And, for the record,  @anthonyperuzzo , I don't hate the sentimental ending... I hate that it is completely unearned.  A tremendous lack of consequences all around.

    I'm not usually one to agree with Harry Knowles' "reviews" (reviews in quotes, as they're usually just stream-of-consciousness gush or rage fests), but I'm with him here: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/57109
  • I dunno - none of those are holes to me. I mean, for instance, him being gone for eight years isn't really a hole - it may be a choice you don't agree with, but it's not what I'd call a hole.

    I disagree that it's inconsistent with the end of DK - at the end, he has lost the woman he loves, saw a man he considered the person he took up the fight turned into a monsters, is going to be hunted by the police and has seen that the people of Gotham are fundamentally good and decent people. That he quits being Batman is pretty reasonable continuation of where he was then.

    That said, while I feel the movie justified it, I'm not entirely happy with it. I think it would have been more satisfying to have had him being Batman until he couldn't, but it is what is. Fundamentally, this is a different Batman than the comicbook one - Bruce setting up Batman as an enduring symbol, something bigger than one man, something that could people that are other than him - that's been there in all three movies. This is a Batman who could walk away someday. And did.

    LIkewise, I don't necessarily think having him only have been active for a year is the choice I'd have made but in that year: he was involved in a mass breakout at Arkham, a chemical attack on the city, a very public crusade by the Joker against him, and the scourging of the criminal element. Yeah, people, even kids, are going to remember and talk about him.
  • I know it's heresy, but I have no desire to see the movie. I didn't care for The Dark Knight, aside from Ledger. I saw Brave yesterday and enjoyed it immensely.
  • For me, it strained credulity that Bruce could ever, given how broken he was and how long a lay off it had been, ever get back into condition to physically be Batman. And for the most part, he sat around in his Batoplane and shot at things. In his two fights with Bane he was slow and just bore in on his adversary. I would have expected him to use trickery and evasion and seek tactical edges, but no. In a couple of scenes against Bane's minions he was his old quick, ruthless self. Actually, his emphasis on push-ups and pullups in all of his movies struck me as fantasy training. (Those are good exercises, but that's it?)

    Still, its a classic superhero comics approach. Determination and hard work, that's the ticket, my son.
  • There is an aspect of Bruce's story arc across the three movies that seems coherent to me. Bruce must "embrace" fear to becomes Batman and in doing so he loses his fear of death. Alfred accuses him of courting it. And in not being afraid of dying, he loses his capacity to live. In "escaping his prison" (for the metaphoricaly inclined) without a saftey rope, he regains his fear of dying, and therefore can embrace living again.

    You may feel that its empty rhetoric, or could have been expressed better, but I found it to be pretty clearly stated and it reaches back into the first movie.

  • @NolanTJ and @anthonyperuzzo ;I'm with you on this.

    While I didn't hate it, I also felt... numb by it (as Marv said "a giant wallow").
    And it invites a person (like me) to nitpick on it.  Which I admit, isn't fair, after all it is fiction not a documentary.  So, this is a comic book-based film even if Nolan wants us to believe this is as real as it gets.  Dirty realism... with a man dressed as a bat.

    That said, I wasn't falling for the idea that an entire city would be cut off, or that people were such sheep that they'd walk lockstep on Bane's threat alone and that the U.S. government would just roll over for a Bomb Queen style city of crime.

    But, the film needs something for a conflict, right?  So I let that all go.  However...

    **  I couldn't get over Joseph Gordon-Levitt just *knowing* that Bruce Wayne was Batman.

    **  I couldn't get over how Bane/Talia knew Bruce Wayne was Batman.  If so, why lure him into a bat suit just so he can watch his city die?  Just grab him as Bruce Wayne-with-a-cane.  They already had his fingerprints and the ability to ruin him.  They already knew where to get all his batmobiles and toys. Batman was already *gone* and believed to be a murderer (Harvey Dent), so why bring batman back again?  Just to frame him again, as still a bad batman?

    ** Bane's prison scene (post back-breaking, disk protruding) didn't work.  Like Marv said, push ups and pull ups aren't enough.  I'd rather see him better his skills by sparring with other inmates.

    ** I believe Bruce Wayne escapes Bane's prison the very *day of* the bomb going off.  He is half way around the world... yet, without a penny in his pocket makes it back to Gotham on what should've been a 12+ hour flight, after months in captivity, without jet lag on a still-mending broken back.  And he wins without doing anything different than his first fight.

    ** If Selina Kyle, Joseph Gordon-Levitt and Bane all know he's Bruce Wayne why does he still talk with a disguised gravel voice?  Is this like Tropic Thunder where he just can't get out of character?  Even when Selina does a disappearing act on the roof and he is all alone he says, "So that's how that feels" in a fake voice.  I know it's a tricky dance with the audience on a diegetic and nondigetic level, but (again, for *me*) it was open for nitpicking.

    All the stuff with Talia, Bane and Joseph Gordon-Levitt and the Iron Giant ending was fine.  For me it was the background aspects of society that dragged it down.  Nobody fought back?  No resistance movement beyond the police department and other law agencies?  Why would anyone dress up as a bat to save that city?  Hahah!

    But yeah... the movie would be 5 hours long if they addressed all that.  Thus, what bogged it down for me was the *shorthand* tactics used to move the plot along.  Again, like I said, I didn't hate it at all, it just felt forced onto the screen.
  • For me, it strained credulity that Bruce could ever, given how broken he was and how long a lay off it had been, ever get back into condition to physically be Batman. And for the most part, he sat around in his Batoplane and shot at things. In his two fights with Bane he was slow and just bore in on his adversary. I would have expected him to use trickery and evasion and seek tactical edges, but no. In a couple of scenes against Bane's minions he was his old quick, ruthless self. Actually, his emphasis on push-ups and pullups in all of his movies struck me as fantasy training. (Those are good exercises, but that's it?)

    Still, its a classic superhero comics approach. Determination and hard work, that's the ticket, my son.
    I think that's probably part of the whole ninja thing. That said, the Bale Batman doesn't really need quite the same level of extreme strength and conditioning the comic book one does. So pushup and pulls up and other stuff might do the trick, I suppose. God knows, there were decades of boxers who did little more than that and were beasts.

    I'm not entirely sure how out of shape he was meant to be, though. Leg not withstanding, he was at least practicing archery and doing something with his time.

    (Although I was bothered by, and would consider this something of a plot hole, by two things related to his leg: First, no one mentioned that he suddenly when from being cane guy to perfectly fit without even a limp as Bruce Wayne and second, he apparently didn't need the doodad that allowed him to work normally after that first scene, because he presumably didn't have it during the prison scenes.)

    Interestingly, Bane had essentially superhuman strength, which was....interesting? I mean, during their first fight, he casually strolls with Batman held up by one hand and Bale weighs somewhere between 180 and 200 pounds. Now, yeah, there are people who can lift that above their head with one hand, but probably none who could do it the way Bane did.

    One of the things that remains true is that Nolan STILL hasn't figured out how to film solo fight scenes. He's gotten better at filming Batman or Catwoman fighting multiple people, but the fights with Bane should have had more impact. It's not the choreography, it's the cinetography and editing.

    Which is a shame, because Hardy is capable of absolutely terrifying speed (you see it a bit in their second fight) - he puts it to excellent use in Bronson and Warrior - and he could have done a lot more in those scenes.
  • Perhaps I'm putting my imagination into it, but the interpretation I took away was Batman continued, but far more secretive and less flashy (no batsignal makes it easier to start down the road to a lower profile) until the crime in Gotham was stamped down.  With nothing left to fight, Bruce withdrew and settled in to his injuries.

    With Wayne money and political will from the mayor and Commissioner Gordon, it'd be pretty easy for the Dent anniversary to become a thing.  

    There are a few other things I see as quibbles with the narrative devices and certainly not plot holes;  Bane had to be faster and stronger than Bruce was and the easiest way to show that is for Bale to slow down noticeably in those fights, also, the training was really visual shorthand to make the connection to Wayne having recovered.

    My one issue is the quick jump from his escape to his showing up in Gotham without any indication of what resources he utilized to do it (Wayne's broke and in Morocco and then he's in Gotham).
  • "I
    couldn't get over how Bane/Talia knew Bruce Wayne was Batman.  If so,
    why lure him into a bat suit just so he can watch his city die?  Just
    grab him as Bruce Wayne-with-a-cane.  They already had his fingerprints
    and the ability to ruin him.  They already knew where to get all his
    batmobiles and toys. Batman was already *gone* and believed to be a
    murderer (Harvey Dent), so why bring batman back again?  Just to frame
    him again, as still a bad batman?"

    I don't think Bane and Talia meant to do that. They were trying pretty hard to not let anyone know what was going on with their plan until it was too late to do anything about it. What I think was meant to happen was that Wayne wasn't meant to come after them until after the part where they attack the stock exchange. Selina getting too curious (amusingly - cats and all) looked like it jacked up their plan. Note that Talia had been in Gotham for YEARS, and Bane was there for, probably, six months or so before Batman had any idea they were there.

    But I mean, them knowing is fine. I mean, the whole League of Shadows knew, and they appeared to mostly survive Batman Begins. Likewise, they were trained by the League of Shadows and would recognize the tactics.


    "
    believe Bruce Wayne escapes Bane's prison the very *day of* the bomb
    going off.  He is half way around the world... yet, without a penny in
    his pocket makes it back to Gotham on what should've been a 12+ hour
    flight, after months in captivity, without jet lag on a still-mending
    broken back.  And he wins without doing anything different than his
    first fight."

    He doesn't. It's twenty one days before the bomb going off, so it takes him several weeks to make that journey.
  • "
    My one issue is the quick jump from his escape to his showing up in
    Gotham without any indication of what resources he utilized to do it
    (Wayne's broke and in Morocco and then he's in Gotham)."

    That one didn't bug me - he had plenty of experience travelling the world during Batman Begins, without money or identification, so even if you don't go with "He's Batman" as an explanation, he definitely has that skillset. Especially when it takes him a few weeks to do it.
  • I also got it that it took him some time to get from prison to Gotham. I can imagine that Bruce has set up "access points" around the world where he can tap into hidden funds if needed. Not that this is indicated in the movie at all. But as has been noted elsewhere, people in Nolan movies (and plenty of others) have access to resources as needed. In how many movies do villains have all the money they need?
  • And yeah, Jimmie. I think when he wears the suit he just talks like Batman, and not like Bruce Wayne.
  • Maybe the suit collar restricts his vocal chords?  Haha!
    I have to admit... trying to listen to both him and Bane was a pain.
    I was going to ask the theater for hearing impaired listening headphones just to I could isolate what they were saying.  I'll check it out again on a second viewing.
  • Thought it was a garbledy snooze.  Not much of anything in it made sense.
  • Maybe the suit collar restricts his vocal chords?  Haha!
    I have to admit... trying to listen to both him and Bane was a pain.
    I was going to ask the theater for hearing impaired listening headphones just to I could isolate what they were saying.  I'll check it out again on a second viewing.
    Agreed. I thought they were both having a contest on who could be less audible. When watching at home (when I buy the DVD), I'm probably going to have to put subtitles on....
  • I didn't have any problem understanding either except when they got swamped by the score. That is not how you mix sound.
  • Yeah, I could pretty well tell what was being said.
  • I guess you guys have better ears than me, or at least able to interpret or fill in the blanks better, hahah!

    In my view, if a movie costs over 100 million to make they shouldn't leave it up to me to fill in the blanks for them -- unless that's the goal. But it's all good.  I saw it, I'll see parts of it again (since I have a day job at the movie theater, I can see it as many times as I want).
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