Manga Studio / Clip Studio Paint

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  • "Wavy parallel rulers" also sounds like a nifty alternate-universes concept.
  • Very. Not sure how useful or in what context...
  • Hey guys. I know we haven't posted anything in this thread in a while, but it looks like they are having another sale. Not as awesome as the last one but still a decent price and if you are upgrading then it's even cheaper!

  • edited May 2014
    A couple updates:

    MS 5.0.4 is out.  No must-have features, but worth downloading for minor improvements here and there.

    Smith-Micro is selling downloadable versions again (rather than only on CD). Apparently to comply with geographic licensing issues, the download version (in English) has the original Japanese branding: "Clip Studio Paint" by Celsys.

    Oh, and they're having another one of their frequent sales, about 1/3 off.
  • Every year I say that I'm going to pick this up... every year I balk.
    This year I will make the purchase (so I can write it off on next year's taxes).

    I just... have to decide what to use it for.  I STILL love drawing on paper.
  • If nothing else, use it for the perspective rulers — makes 1, 2, and 3 point perspectives an absolute doddle. Do all the construction work in MS, output a blueline onto paper and proceed as normal…!
  • edited May 2014
    Manga Studio upgrade is on sale. I have 4 EX and I have only looked at it once. I need to decide if I want to take the plunge and upgrade but I'm not sure. My problem is that I was trained in Graphic Design and therefore I cling to what I know. However, I'm not willing to jump to Adobe's subscription model so I really have to start searching for reasonable alternatives down the line.

    *Edit* I just read over Manga Studio 5 EX's features. You can now do entire books with it. However they don't have patterns enabled with it? How does that work? I am grooving on some of these features but some of the features that they took away for future versions? Kind of baffles me here (unless I'm reading things incorrectly)
  • edited May 2014
    You can do multipage books with 4EX, too, Beth…

    That said, all the colour tools are massively upgraded and there are some interesting new rulers in 5.* The lettering tools are improved, too. Nowhere near pro standard, IMO, but definitely improved.

    *The difference between 5 and 5EX is nowhere near as big as 4's Debut and EX difference. Basically, 5EX gives you multi-page documents and a couple of extra export options.
  • There are some MS4 features that disappeared, because MS5 isn't technically an upgrade of MS4, but is instead based on another program, for color painting.  Celsys added or recreated most of the comics-oriented features (the most important ones, at least) and called it Manga Studio 5, then added the multi-page features to turn that into MS 5EX.  The updates since then have fixed some of those not-really-an-upgrade issues, and they promise that more of the missing features will be showing up in future updates (presumably free ones).
  • @JimCampbell I am very new to the program. I realise that I need to learn more about it. So you are able to do multiple page page layouts within one document?


    @JasonAQuest I did some digging and discovered that there is this big thing about MS is being integrated into Clip Studio Paint (which I think is the Japanese version, or something like that) At any rate, there seems to be some head butting between Smith Micro and CELSYS about distribution. Hopefully, they manage to work it out.
  • Manga Studio works like a cross between a desktop publishing program (multiple-page documents) and Photoshop (drawing, lettering, coloring tools).  It stores the pages in individual files, but when you open the master file, you have access to all of them in that document.

    Clip Studio Paint is the program that was transformed into Manga Studio 5.  From what I understand, Smith Micro only has distribution rights to the program in North America, and Celsys didn't like them selling a downloadable version that could be purchased anywhere.  The fact that Smith is now (re?)selling it as "Clip Studio Paint" for downloading would seem to indicate that they've worked something out.
  • Well... after reading about Adobe's recent server shutdown / crash on their Creative Cloud (down almost 24 hours), I'm even more interested in Manga Studio.
  • Most users could still use their software during the outage (it mostly affected people trying to update or install new apps on their computers), but ... yeah, this is the technical argument against the Adobe CC subscription model.
  • I had no trouble using my Adobe apps during the outage. But I'm going to cancel when the year is up for renewal. I'm down to only using Photoshop. Manga Studio 5 and Gimp can replace that. Never could get the hang of Illustrator or inDesign. And I don't have the time now.
  • edited May 2014
    @JimCampbell I am very new to the program. I realise that I need to learn more about it. So you are able to do multiple page page layouts within one document?
    Yep. In 4EX you go New-> Story and you get the option for multipage documents. In 5EX, you go New -> Document and there's a 'Multiple Pages' tickbox at the bottom of the resulting dialogue box that lets you create multi-page documents based on your chosen page template.
  • @JimCampbell Thank you. I'm going to try to do some experimenting soon.
  • Hmm -  I bought 3 and 4 and never got around to playing with 'em.

    Might wait until it can go all the way to quality colour and print production.

    ~R
  • I tried it out a few years back and found it clunky for the stuff I do most often--resizing and formatting pages. 

    I hope it will one day replace the suite of Adobe bloatware I'm currently using, but that day is not today.
  • Hmm -  I bought 3 and 4 and never got around to playing with 'em.

    Might wait until it can go all the way to quality colour and print production.

    ~R
    The colour engine in MS5 is completely new. In fact, the whole thing is completely new under the hood, as I understand it — it's an entirely different piece of software that they've bolted much of the old MS4 UI onto for the sake of familiarity. No ability to work natively in CMYK, which is a deal-breaker for me (although you can export to CMYK TIFF and include colour profiles) but the colour features are much more capable in MS5.
  • edited June 2014
    So...when my home was burglarized earlier this year, my computer was taken. The computer was an eBay purchase and came loaded with Adobe CS6. 

    I've replaced my computer, but not CS6. I frequently used Illustrator for lettering, Photoshop to move colored artwork between RGB and CMYK as needed to accommodate print and digital publication, and Acrobat (or sometimes InDesign) to assemble multi-page PDFs.

    Would either of the Manga Studio programs (5 or EX) accommodate my needs, or will I need to bite the bullet and purchase some iteration of Creative Suite?

  • I don't think Manga Studio will do the job for you. The lettering tools are waaaay short of the typographic controls offered by Illustrator and the lack of native CMYK support means that you're placing a lot of trust in the CMYK export — more than I'd be happy to do. Plus, no control of trapping (overprints, and so on) as far as I know. Although you can have multi-page documents within MS5 EX, I don't think you can export them to a multi-page PDF, either.

    FWIW, you can still buy CS6 if the whole Creative Cloud thing doesn't appeal… personally, Adobe will have to pry my perpetual license from my cold, dead hands.
  • edited June 2014
    Honestly, for what I need, I can probably get a copy of an earlier CS. No sense in buying a Cadillac when a Honda will do.

    EDIT: Thanks for the insight, Jim.
  • edited June 2014
    MS 5 is a former painting program called (demonstrating the Japanese developers' non-fluency in English) Clip Studio Paint, that's been overhauled into a replacement for MS 4.  Frankly, I don't think there's a lot of "familiarity" to the MS 4 UI involved, beyond the things that are dictated by the type of software it is.

    One of its strengths as a comix-making tool is what makes it difficult to suggest as a general-purpose replacement for Adobe CS: It's built for making comix.  It combines all the relevant features of Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, but leaves out the rest. For example, Photoshop is perfectly happy to create a PSD file of any arbitrary pixel dimensions and then mess around with them as you go, but MS5 pushes you to think more like Illustrator or InDesign and set up a document with specified physical size, margins, and (optional) number of pages. That's not saying you can't do it, but you have to push it. Illustrator will gladly let you play with type until you've missed your already-gone-to-print deadline, but MS5 just gives you the tools for word balloons and basic SFX.  (Don't even think about flowing copy like with InDesign.)  It supports vector art, but it does it like Photoshop as an adjunct to bitmaps, not like Illustrator as a primary graphic design element.  It definitely can't substitute for Acrobat, because it doesn't output in PDF (though that's probably just because they haven't gotten around to adding that feature to MS5 yet: MS4 did).
  • One of its strengths as a comix-making tool is what makes it difficult to suggest as a general-purpose replacement for Adobe CS: It's built for making comix
    I absolutely agree. Unlike PS, it's built with the intention that you'd use it to draw — the oft-mentioned perspective rulers are fantastic and once you get your head round the panel-cutter you find yourself wondering how you ever put up with creating panel borders any other way…
  • edited June 2014
    Finally came around to playing with MS5EX, about half a year after buying it. So far, the new look and feel made me opt out and keep using the more familar 4, plus the fact that 5 was too heavy for my now-defunct laptop.

    Actually, for me it replaces Photoshop more than it does MS4. (I'm sure it will once I figured out where the speech balloons and the panel cutter are.) That's not a general recommendation, though - I guess it just means I've never used PS to its fullest. (CMYK workspace isn't an issue for me, I mostly work in RGB and export from there, being all appreciative for the color profiles workin all smoothly.) Also, my first MS5 project was my new album cover. So I was more concerned with layer effects and export options and happy I can finally type Umlauts straight into the image.

    It still isn't the one-stop app I'd like it to be for all things comic. The limited export options are a big problem - no PDF, no gif or 8-bit png that I found (this bugged me in 4, too). Also, did they scrape the option to choose which part of the image to export, or is it just not working in my install?

    What bugged me most, though, is that MS exported the blue layout frame into the tiff I used for my book cover - ruining my first print batch because it never occurred to me that I'd have to look for that in later edits, so I kept myself concerned with placement issues rather than that.

    I managed to switch that off  in later exports, though I don't know how. MS5 and I still have a lot of bonding to do.
  • With so many printers asking for PDFs as their print files how does one go from Manga Studio file to PDF? Are there extra steps in exporting or something?
  • The simplest way to make PDFs from MS (or any program that doesn't have an export-to-PDF option) would be to "print" them instead.  OS X has the capability built in, with Windows you need Adobe Acrobat or the free doPDF utility installed.  It's just like printing, but instead of selecting a physical printer, you select the PDF "device" and the output ends up in a file.  I can't vouch for how print-shop-ready the results of this are, but as long as you select the highest-quality options, it's probably OK.

    There are also stand-alone programs that will convert and combine TIFFs (or whatever) into PDF files (Acrobat being the standard), which might give better control over settings.
  • Control over settings can be curcial depending on what the printer needs (especially in color comics). That's why I usually just export to tiff and import those into a Scribus project (or InDesign, but recently it's mostly Scribus). It's a very clumsy and clanky way of doing it, but you have all the control you need in Scribus' export. Also, I usually add a few pages of commentary and sketches and stuff to print comics, so I can make use of Scribus while I'm at it.
  • One of the reasons why Adobe has at least some of us over a barrel is that I've yet to find a reasonable alternative graphics application that gives you direct control over trapping, ink limits and black composition. :-(

    (Pretty sure CorelDraw does, but it's Windows-only.)
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